House Sparrow U.S.

Messages and sketches.

These texts try to express problems of unnecessary and aggressive control of nature. They're written in a rush and need a rewrite later.

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I'm a bit troubled to find http://ohiobluebirdsociety.org/ listing numbers of killed birds (house sparrows and starlings) on their front page

, https://ohiobluebirdsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/OBSSpring2013Newsletter.pdf containing triumphant pictures of dead house sparrows, http://www.sialis.org/hospdispatch.htm presenting all legal and non-legal ways to kill them, and even https://abcbirds.org/bird/eastern-bluebird/ praising activities of these/related organisations as "instrumental" in saving eastern bluebirds, mentioning house sparrows and european starlings as the only cause to their decline, without mentioning losing habitats, and without mentioning that these birds are actually and actively killed. (There's also scientific "stress" tests where is used primarily house sparrows.)

I'm still unsure how widely are these aggressive views accepted?

I have understanding that the native species have been threatened locally and not actually threatened by extinction, and motivation for these activies partially is a desire to have them at backyards which for me is hardly conserving the nature but more like some sort of an entertainment. I also find that house sparrows are in decline there too https://www.gridphilly.com/grid-magazine/2018/3/15/from-savior-to-nuisance-to-species-in-decline-the-house-sparrows-is-an-american-tale and https://blog.nature.org/science/2019/03/25/where-have-all-the-house-sparrows-gone/

In current situation of environmental politics globally, where nature is not properly taken in account at beginning, I find it somewhat flawed using aggressive controlling as a primary mean to controlling roughly any species, and more so when their number are actually declining.

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American habit to use abbreviations particularly in this issue effectively objectifies the subject to persecution. It just proceeds as a machine.

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By using aggression in "controlling" house sparrows in u.s. you're actually repeating historical mistakes of using _force_.

If you have concerns in agriculture or health, you should improve your _practices_ adjacent to them, not finding scapegoat to maintain aggressive control over nature, where you're purposefully justifying other issues by other issues.

"Your" natural bird species are not _really_ threatened by house sparrows. You may _want_ them to appear in some areas where they _currently_ can't but that's what happens in nature. Main point is, in nature there's always some species who react to overwhelming aggression from other parts of the nature, and the main source of that aggression is _human_.

By saying that human introduced them to america, is not corrected by persecuting them by human act, but by _correting the (possibly dog based) human urge for aggressive controlling of nature_ .

You will see that aggressive control will still reduce the wealth of nature, and your aggression is integral part of it. Enlarge your view of the threat beyond house sparrows and you will see yourselves. 

*House sparrows are your best conscience.*

Stop people there using birds in scientific stress tests. You have opened the emotional ground that it's even possible.

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Questioning the view of House Sparrows presented at the Sialis website

To you people who hate House Sparrows so much, has it ever occured to your mind that it's a) something in your attitude, or b) something else in your surroundings that makes them behave aggressive.

House Sparrows are of European origin and they have been brought there. "Americans" are of European origin. Native americans and Bluebirds are what was there before either of them arrived... and ... Reading the pages of your desperation makes me understand much of the desperation around the world.

One line at Sialis site http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm says it all: "I have heard reports that in some areas [House Sparrow] and native cavity nesters appear to peacefully coexist." Examine this and examine then what is happening in you.

Other line: "I often see reports of people who say they have had [House Sparrows] for years, and then suddenly start seeing attacks." Aggression in nature means that there is something other simultaneous aggression around... read newspapers if nothing else.

And aggression, when started, is something you can feed: "House Sparrows cause other damage: to crops (esp. grains) and gardens (eating seed, seedlings, buds, flowers, young vegetables [such as peas and lettuce], maturing fruit (such as cherries, pears and peaches but not grapes)... In exceptional cases (e.g., consumption of alfalfa weevil and cutworms), [House Sparrow] have been somewhat useful..." You are the one who is aggressive, and you drive that aggression in to the nature.

Whatever you may think about your environmental responsibility, like all "American's" your world is ego-centric shit. "If you are serious about bluebirding, you should be serious about [House Sparrow] control." What is this "bluebirding"? It seems to be nothing for nature... it's for some perverse esthetics you seem to have.

Of course I understand the desperation that may rise eg. when non-native species conflict with the native ones, but your way of "Active Control" is MILITANT.

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Nature is interaction - I didn't say it's easy.

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Stop Aggression!

Nature evolves, here in Finland House Sparrows have become extinct in many areas. Somehow there's now Tree Sparrows. House Sparrows are here peaceful birds, for example it never takes over a feeding place before others - they're very picky about them - and in general I personally experience them to be the glue that keeps all other species welcome around. I possibly exaggerated, but they are peaceful. In general occasional aggression belongs to all birds. The view you give about House Sparrows is twisted - you don't understand them at all - and the system you are keeping up is terrible destruction itself.

In nature there's usually no isolated islands. There's always some threat: predators, diseases. In nature someone always attacks when sudden threat is occurring - they try to act before it happens. Here, where House Sparrows live naturally, it usually works other way. If speaking about ordinary acts, someone eg. brings around dogs and keeps them free, and atmosphere becomes painfully tense - then something just happens during short span of time: an accident or aggressive predators come.

All nature events are signs - there's always something that is behind that event. If it is said that in some areas House Sparrows and original species can peacefully co-exist, then there is a trigger that causes that aggression to occur. Unfortunately I must say that most likely that trigger is some event in "natural" human way of living, thus it is within you. You should examine that trigger and adapt to that - find that common enemy that is really threatening all birds.

Now you are running terrible destruction yourself and you learn nothing about nature. You act like farmers or the ones raising poodles, and not protecting nature.

Use your efforts against that common enemy, and take care of aspects specific to natural species and stop bullying nature. You will find better results in the end.

Stop Aggression! It Spreads! 

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Seeing that this kind of study https://support.peta.org/page/1068/action/1 of Christine Lattin's is possible at Louisiana State University is a confirmation for my understanding that idiocracy of populism currently going on worldwide is no surprise, but was built-in at university level already.

She's using purposeful reasoning of U.S. "Bluebird farmers" as a justification for her maltreatment of sentient birds capable of meaningful cross-species co-operation and communication if not targeted and persecuted.

I urge you to take a stand against these atrocities at your university. 

Thank you.

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*stop terrorizing house sparrows*

to american bluebird "farmers".

you are doing what you're doing for some limited esthetics (backyards, handfeeding) not for protecting nature.

you are causing unneccessary anxiety and stress.

nature has been altered numerous times due to human act. you should _not_ target and persecute birds that know their environment better than you.

species can co-operate when they need to, and even out numerically. they're not just spreading endlessly. house sparrows are not aggressive by nature. aggression that causes nature to react comes from your surroundings.

you don't respect nature. you are keeping _too close_ the species you "enjoy", but _nature_ doesn't allow that - especially from a human species known for it's activities. birds don't belong to _you_. they're someone else's birds, and you don't give them enough room.

stop this insanity and use non-destructive methods only. you can't "attract" anything to anywhere _at your will_.

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People are doing what they're doing for some limited esthetics (backyards, handfeeding) and not really for protecting nature. It's not respecting nature, but "attracting" species people "enjoy" _too close_ which causes the nature react eventually in some form or other.

How serious threat you consider House Sparrow to native birds anyway? Locally, may be, (I guess it would be temporary anyway, considering the trend of declining elsewhere) but in a larger scale?

First and foremost reason for decline of natural species has been losing natural nesting places,

"...era of good fortune was short-lived... many thousands of hectares of bluebird habitat were completely denuded of trees annually for farming. Also, Europeans brought with them intruders—starlings and House Sparrows—which had little difficulty in evicting the bluebirds from the few remaining nest sites."

https://bluebirdtrails.org/mountain-bluebirds/conservation/

So people seem to want easy scapegoat, and continue unsustainable aggressive control practices on nature in new form.

I think people try to take too _intimate_ relationships to "desirable" natvie birds, which is a main concern, taking in account general human way of living including utilization of animal relationship eg. as food - which is not insignificant question, causing indirect consequenses due thoughtlessness.

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Why is this aggression against house sparrows as the the whole issue is created by human act - first removing masses of nesting places.

I see human aggression or pressure as the main reason for nature attacking each other near human settlements. House Sparrow by nature is _not_ any more aggressive than other birds. As a natural species here in Finland i see mainly interaction and co-operation between species eg. at feeding places and not just competing. and the aggression i Find from numerous bluebird sites seems false. People are doing what they're doing for some limited esthetics (backyards, handfeeding) and not for protecting nature. It's not respecting nature, but "attracting" species people "enjoy" _too close_ which causes nature react eventually.

I'd suggest resisting aggressive methods and use non-destructing methods only, as this targeting and persepuction doesn't lessen aggression but increases it - directly or indirectly.

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How widespread in your country are the "methods" used in "controlling" threat caused by European origin House Sparrows to native American songbirds?

General attitude is highly concerning. This is not protecting nature, this is raising poodles at the backyard. It is said on that site that "in some areas [House Sparrow] and native cavity nesters appear to peacefully coexist." (first link) If so, then there is a trigger (external aggression) that causes those attacks and must be examined (most likely human aggresssion, direct or indirect).

Protection should focus on external threat to all birds. By nature, House Sparrow is _not_ any more aggressive than other birds. Birds can co-operate when they are not targeted and persecuted, they're not just competing but place themselves side-by-side in meaningful relationships, which is now completely obstructed. When they are protected against a common enemy, they find more peaceful relationships. They're not just chasing food or mating.

What kind of a reasoning is this veteran "bluebirders" consensus? Americans of European origin, who took over that land by aggression, still try desperately to invent new ways to express it. And this aggression spreads. 

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Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. (Matthew 10:29-31)

Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before God. (Luke 12:6)

...yes, of course...

"you are of more value than many sparrows".

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I'd like to ask do you have any program or knowledge of how widespread is persecuting European origin House Sparrows at United States?

There's eg. information about wingtrimming, excecutioning, proposal of using as live food for predators at:

http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm

http://www.sialis.org/wingtrim.htm

http://www.sialis.org/hospdispatch.htm

The general attitude is highly questionable. Quote from other site:

[long text already quoted]

https://bluebirdtrails.org/mountain-bluebirds/conservation/

These people seem to want an easy scapegoat, and continue unsustainable aggressive control of nature in a new form. While different species generally are able to co-operate in a shared environment (they're not just competing), this targeting (and other indirect tension caused by sharing environment with humans) is likely to increase their observed aggressiveness. 

Overall, I think people try to take too _intimate_ relationships to the "desirable" native birds (as near as in their backgrounds), which is a concern, taking in account general human way of living which involves for example varied relationships to their natural enemies, which has different indirect consequenses of thoughtlessness and general perception.

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"The house sparrow is declining across the globe in its native and non-native range… and researchers just don’t know why, and it’s kind of disturbing." Whatever is affecting the sparrows won’t necessarily stop with them, she said. "What’s going to happen to our native wildlife?... What happens if no bird species can thrive in our urban areas?"

http://www.gridphilly.com/grid-magazine/2018/3/15/from-savior-to-nuisance-to-species-in-decline-the-house-sparrows-is-an-american-tale

"To some people the house sparrow is a cute little bird. To others it is an invasive species that competes with native birds [LINK TO http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm], like Eastern bluebirds, for nesting sites. To me, they are an invaluable resource that allows me to improve our understanding of the impact of stress on animals and humans."

https://www.christinelattin.com/

[See image]

https://twitter.com/c_lattin/status/1036982176825393152

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Birds in plastic bags?

You hypocritical immoral heirs of killers of native american people. How low can you go?

there's a whole in u.s. legislation. you're using it for sadistic purposes.

machinery you have created can be used harrassing people.

find alternative methods and stop _repeating mistakes_ .

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House Sparrows are declining globally so there's no reason for them to be targeted in that perspective either. How human will _continue_ to change their surroundings will ease your concern further.

You should broaden your view from few species. I don't see house sparrows real threat to species you want specifically protect. That may be so locally in some areas, but that's what happens in nature anyway, and that's what is happening to house sparrows globally, too.

I'm quite sure all the concerns mentioned can be addressed without the devastation pictured in too many sites there. You're neglecting the point that _human species_ is the pest. And you should change your concerns to bettering the way humans treat nature (i think you in some regard do already), and leave targeting certain species because _people who don't share the concern about the nature will use that aggressive drive as a motivator in their decisions_ .

Your focus is fatally flawed. You are looking for easy solution to cope with unpleasant things in nature, a scapegoat. Science can support different _narrow_ perspectives in _narrow_ setting too. I found you already had studies referred about how aggression occurs in house sparrows. I see that kind of _observing_ lacking real understanding about how nature works. You say eg. "Some [House Sparrows] may ignore other birds, others may simply harass them to prevent successful nesting, while others will kill." That kind of _obseving_ focuses on individuals, but in nature they always _reflect_ something, and that's the point. Whole human presence should be taken into account. When you're looking for aggression against the species your worried about you'll find that, but change your point of view: see the aggression against house sparrows - can you see it, can you feel it? 

There's always aggression in nature, we can't build fully peaceful gardens even if we'd like to. But if you continuously drive unaltered pressure to one direction, it may have devastating effects.

Problem here is, I've found birds in general so good reflection of (my or human) conscience, especially house sparrows - they're communicative and straight to a point no human can ever be - that it makes me feel terribly beaten when I see you treat them the way you do.

Learn to see the nature you have there differently, and stop harrassing those european species anymore. Frankly, they came there with you. You said they were never meant to be in the u.s., I'm so sorry to say, that possibly you shouldn't be there either... Do you see what I mean?

In short, I'm saying accept them and apply peaceful, directional solutions only. By looking at those other aspects I've pictured try to find more communicative and understanding relationship. What happens in nature (they're part of your nature now), happens for reason. All of that doesn't bring joy, but then at those times you will see where you failed, if you were true to yourself in what you were doing, and then try new better solutions that are not destructive. All events add to your _understanding_ , and you will see that nature understood all what happened too.